Dissapointed

[Kyzentun]

it just puts both versions there and lets you sort it out. It's considerably simpler to understand than SVN

It works, but it sounds like a force fit. Dropbox is more for sharing than collaborative editing. You don't get a log or easy diffs either, something I like to inspect every once in a while.

The only problem I could see using SVN are file conflicts if two people were working on the same step or TortoiseSVN gets confused. I've had artists with no technical knowledge use it just fine by not touching any of the deep features. Update, edit, commit. Now if we were talking about distributed systems like Git or Mercurial that would be overkill.

I'm also in favor of SVN.
I only have two misgivings:
1. I have is that I don't know what proportion of step artists here are familiar with it. Most can learn it easily, but there's a chance of someone being the one that never learns to update before committing, and destroying other people's work.
2. Hosting. Sourceforge is the only place I know of that provides SVN hosting. It's more intended for code, but it'd be fine to put sm files up there. It's not something I've looked around for though, so there could easily be other places I don't know of.

[Xythar]

It works, but it sounds like a force fit. Dropbox is more for sharing than collaborative editing. You don't get a log or easy diffs either, something I like to inspect every once in a while.

It keeps a history of revisions etc, just doesn't show you what was changed each step.

The thing about Dropbox is its simplicity. You just put stuff in there and it works. I used a symlink to put the Exceltastic Four folder directly inside OpenITG and had new charts show up in there the moment people worked on them. You can also work on it directly from Stepmania or whatever and have all your changes get stored as separate revisions in case you mess something up down the line (which is what I do with pretty much all my WIP stepfiles now).

Like I said, we had it for X4 and had absolutely zero issues of any kind - it just worked. If people were going to use SVN they have to remember to update and commit and know how to deal with conflicts etc etc and it's just a lot more overhead to get people up to speed on it when Dropbox works fine. I use SVN every day at work but for stepfiles, I'd consider it overkill.

Most can learn it easily, but there's a chance of someone being the one that never learns to update before committing, and destroying other people's work.

To be fair you can't actually do this, it won't let you commit if the files are out of date. But it's one more thing to worry about that Dropbox just handles automatically for you.

[Kyzentun]

To be fair you can't actually do this, it won't let you commit if the files are out of date. But it's one more thing to worry about that Dropbox just handles automatically for you.

You know, you say this, and I would say this too, but I've worked with people who have managed to do it anyway. As near as I can figure, they had the old version open in some editor when they updated. Then they save their work in the editor, and the editor doesn't say anything about overwriting the file, or if it does they ignore it. Then they commit the version that wipes out other people's changes.
What happens to the file in the Drop box folder in that scenario? Let's pretend we're collaborating on The Sampling Paradise. I open it up the copy that is in the Drop box folder because stepmania is set up that way. I spend 2 hours working on a chart for it. Before I finish, you open up your copy to work on your chart. While you are working, I save my chart, and off it goes. What happens when you save your chart? This can only work out nicely if Drop box knows to perform 2 merges (one for my changes, one for yours). Otherwise, some human is stuck doing an error-prone merge by hand. A locking mechanism can be used to exchange this for the problem of someone leaving a file locked for 2 weeks.

As for why you had zero problems on X4, the answer is right there in the number. 4 people aren't likely to run into problems. Especially in the case where only 2 people are going to touch a given file. In a site pack, there are going to be ~15 step artists, and 4 or maybe 5 of them may have charts in one file. It's still not terribly likely for a work collision to occur, but it is something we should be aware of the possibility of.
If Dropbox really can provide version control without the overhead of learning, then it's probably a good solution.

SVN (or something that performs merges) probably doesn't become really necessary until you have 7-8 people who all need to edit the same file. At that point, coordinating which person is allowed to edit at any given time becomes a hassle.

[Xythar]

You can't commit a version that wipes out other people's changes in SVN. If you have a version on your computer that was last updated from the repository an hour ago, and people have committed changes to that file since then, it will straight out tell you that the file is out of date when you try to commit it, and will make you do an update first. I've had it happen many times. Even if you somehow deleted someone else's changes (basically not possible unless you update the file and delete them yourself as it only merges the changed lines in) you can always just revert that.

If you get a conflict in Dropbox, it'll simply throw both versions of the file into the folder and leave it to you to sort it out. Again, it also keeps a full revision history so you can easily revert to a previous version if anything goes wrong.

Even with 15 people Dropbox would be fine - how often did you see two people posting a new chart (or revisions to an existing chart) in the same file within the same ~30 second interval during r21penis? You open the file, you paste your chart in, you close the file. That's only seconds during which someone else could have opened it themselves.

[Wastum]

I personally prefer SVN above Dropbox from my own experience, but it really depends. SVN is better when there are quite some people working on a project and the chance that more people are working on the same file. Dropbox is better when a project is edited once in a while or on a regulare basis, where the chance of conflicts is very small.

[Xynn]

I vote Xynn for admin, and sole moderator of the JY

If I were admin I'd do the intelligent thing and just take the site down.

[joe#2]

a) Good god this thread got so offtopic why

b)

2. Hosting. Sourceforge is the only place I know of that provides SVN hosting. It's more intended for code, but it'd be fine to put sm files up there. It's not something I've looked around for though, so there could easily be other places I don't know of.

Untrue, we're using free google code hosting for UFOS and it works fantastically with TortoiseSVN

c) Xythar's main defense of dropbox here seems to be that getting stepartists to remember some simple SVN steps is not worth the hassle. If you're going to have people on your team that honestly can't remember to click one or two buttons before getting to work on something, I'd rather not have them on my team at all. Just saying. Update/commit is a VERY simple task to do and it does a great job of keeping everyone on the same page. I'm not bashing dropbox, but I'm just saying that SVN is working great for us even on the small scale, so unless you recruit a bunch of mongoloids, it *should* work well in a larger setting (that, and let's be honest, even when the packs were going, lower charts weren't exactly being posted within seconds of eachother).

Main point is that from the amount of nice surprises after PENIS' release of all the outdated charts there were, it's clear that there needs to be some sort of system in place, whether it is a dropbox/SVN/whatever.

[Kyzentun]

2. Hosting. Sourceforge is the only place I know of that provides SVN hosting. It's more intended for code, but it'd be fine to put sm files up there. It's not something I've looked around for though, so there could easily be other places I don't know of.

Untrue, we're using free google code hosting for UFOS and it works fantastically with TortoiseSVN

I made a statement about the status of my knowledge, and stated that my knowledge was incomplete. My statement was true. /pedant

c) Xythar's main defense of dropbox here seems to be that getting stepartists to remember some simple SVN steps is not worth the hassle.

I didn't want to be the elitist that says, "If you're too dumb to use SVN, you shouldn't be making simfiles for a site project.", but I agree with you on this.

[ashtonkutcher]

But in all seriousness, I think we need a new Admin if the other ones aren't active here anymore.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't there need to be one for r21freak events like DRAFT, Comp, etc. to be continued?

I vote Niq9.

no, seriously :V

If history has taught us anything it's that this is the worst possible choice for a future admin.

Insane Steve is the best at everything

[Revolver]

I nominate myself for admin so I can rule with an iron fist (or for the reason that I'm almost always available, not busy, and don't avoid the internet). Steve would be another good choice. As would Ryan. All of us. Yeah.