Staff Positions

[Spooty Biscuit]

With Mootz announcing his "official" retirement, I figure this is a good time to bring up the issue of staff positions. No, I'm not here to beg to be Mootz' replacement. But there's a few things I'd like to propose... (If you want a "tl;dr" version, just read the statements in bold)


First off, let's take a look at the current staff. A number of staff members are rarely putting anything out anymore. In fact, everyone's most recent official releases...

NIQ9: 10/8/11 (4 months ago)
Zimlord: 11/14/11 (3 months ago)
Mute: 1/22/12 (1 week ago)
Revolver: 10/4/10 (16 months ago)
Joe#2: 12/17/11 (1.5 months ago)

The only ones who I would say are still putting things out on a fairly regular basis are Joe#2 and Mute. Zimlord put something out fairly recently, but the last release before that was in February, a full year ago from today and 8 months before this little bundle he put out recently. With a few exceptions, the current staff members' releases are sporadic at best.

Second, let's take a look at the quality of their work. No, I'm not going to talk smack about the current staff members' work. All of their charts are fantastic and consistently demonstrate a thorough understanding of proper step-placement, rhythmic accuracy, etc. Any other preference between staff members is pretty much subjective. But here's the thing: There is a huge selection of non-staff members that fit the exact same description as current staff members.

Lastly, and this ties in heavily with the second point, let's look at the reasoning and purpose behind the existence of the whole "staff member" concept. Back when R21 first made its big debut, it was an exciting and novel concept to a lot of people. The majority of ITG players had never actually written stepcharts to music of their choosing, or had even considered the concept. Everyone jumped on-board and started cranking out charts because it was the cool new thing to do. The majority of people doing so had no idea what they were doing. Hell, I've flat out deleted the files I wrote back then because they were so bad (yes, I hated them even more than my Rebirth 1 files). The R21 community at its debut was a mess of unorganized, poorly-written simfiles thrown together by a million Joe Shmoe's who, in most cases, had no idea what they were doing. R21Freak Staff positions, at the time the concept was conceived, were devised as a system of order and example in a brand new world of stepman anarchy and dissidence. By now, there is a well-established and generally accepted set of rules and regulations when it comes to step-writing. In other words, the ultimate goal of the staff concept was already achieved years ago.

So what's my point? Well, it's simple. A number of current staff members do not contribute regularly, a substantial number of current non-staff members contribute content of equal, subjectively even greater quality, and the whole idea of putting people on a pedestal in the first place was to serve as a source of guidance for new up-and-coming stepartists in a time when high-quality community-made pad charts were a bit of a novelty. What does this all lead up to? That the idea of staff members and positions are no longer needed. There are far too many people worthy of honorable mention that come and go constantly in terms of regular activity, that putting a specific few above all others is vain and unnecessary. As such, I'm going to suggest that R21Freak does away with staff positions entirely.

Thoughts?

[Xythar]

Yeah, makes sense. In a way the idea is good because it gives people something to aspire to, but there are probably better ways to do that as well.

[Psychotik]

Yeah, makes sense. In a way the idea is good because it gives people something to aspire to, but there are probably better ways to do that as well.

Like File of the Week.

inb4 u mean file of da month?? slow ass fat boyz.

[joe#2]

I like this idea

now out of here before this thread gets nasty

[TYLR]

this was my idea like 1000000000 years ago way to steal my thoughts

also i should be the only staff member

[SM MaxX]

Yeah we haven't had this thread before like three times already.

[Spooty Biscuit]

Yeah, makes sense. In a way the idea is good because it gives people something to aspire to, but there are probably better ways to do that as well.

Like File of the Week.

inb4 u mean file of da month?? slow ass fat boyz.

Yeah, actually... while we're on that topic, has a more democratic system ever been considered (I.E. anyone can submit a vote for their favorite file each week)? I mean, there's always concern about people trying to rig votes (sounds petty, but there's a number of people I wouldn't put it past), but the current system barely seems to be working, given that file of the week has become file of the month at best.

Also, again, the idea of a specific committee nominating FotW ties back into my earlier point about subjectivity and individual simfile taste.

Yeah we haven't had this thread before like three times already.

Uh, no we haven't? We've had some people pandering for staff positions themselves and throwing out the inactives, but I'm suggesting we do away with the concept entirely, active and inactive staff members alike. Kind of a different ballgame here.

[joe#2]

given that file of the week has become file of the month at best.

I can't comment on the other parts since figuring out a truly objective system without any poll rigging whatsoever seems like a hard (if not near impossible) task to do, but I'm planning to at least avoid this (quoted complaint) as long as FoTW is still a running component of this site. And before you say it I know I exactly haven't been a timely saint with it either, but I'll still always put school over this if I have to. Anyway, I think(?) Rik was busy with like five million things during his month so I guess I could understand (even though it still was drawn out way too much) and I don't know what was up with Terry, but I know at least Psychotik and I are going to be doing our best to keep this to a weekly thing.

[TEEX]

Yeah we haven't had this thread before like three times already.

The only difference is that this one constructively argues against staff positions rather than beg to be one.

Anyway, I agree with Spooty on all counts.

Yeah, actually... while we're on that topic, has a more democratic system ever been considered (I.E. anyone can submit a vote for their favorite file each week)? I mean, there's always concern about people trying to rig votes (sounds petty, but there's a number of people I wouldn't put it past), but the current system barely seems to be working, given that file of the week has become file of the month at best.

Say we had a democratic system. How many people on this site would actually take advantage of their voting power to download the files and packs regularly and nominate what they're in favor of? Would people be allowed to vote for themselves? Say we had a poll system, what are the chances that people end up voting not because they think the chart is good, but because they like the novelty of a particular joke file?

I don't know what was up with Terry

I'll just be honest. I procrastinated because writing paragraphs about simfiles is at the bottom of my priorities.

[Insane Steve]

I kind of like the idea of adding some kind of rating system that members can vote on to files posted in individual files and packs in the packs of files. There's thread rating mods to messages boards, not sure if this can be done here and only so certain sub-forums, though.

As for staff? Yea, there's a ton more people out there making strong charts now. I can definitely see the argument for just doing away with the system.

[Gazebo]

I agree with both of Spooty's posts.

As for FotW, I agree a regular poll can be rigged too easily. But we could still do a poll where each "vote" comes in the form of a post with justification, kind of like what we do for DRAFT.

[joe#2]

As for FotW, I agree a regular poll can be rigged too easily. But we could still do a poll where each "vote" comes in the form of a post with justification, kind of like what we do for DRAFT.

I like the idea of doing it this way, especially with the fact that more people means the chance of it being stalled by one person for a month goes down exponentially. Inversely, though, it makes it an open process with no "closed group" making sure it gets done each time; in other words, if people just simply lose interest in it, it ceases to exist (although if enough people lose interest in even voting, then one has to question if the feature is simply destined to die off anyway).

Maybe we could make this another subforum within Files (IF/Packs/etc) where (registered) users can grab a pack of literally every file made within a week compiled by some person, and then hold post votes? If this actually occurs I think it'd honestly be a much better way to endorse "up and coming" artists that otherwise might have their work ignored, since it effectively forces the voters to look at every file.

Someone I was talking to earlier was joking about piggybacking FoTW winners -- maybe the winner of one week could compile the pack/open the thread for the next week?

[Gazebo]

Maybe we could make this another subforum within Files (IF/Packs/etc) where (registered) users can grab a pack of literally every file made within a week compiled by some person, and then hold post votes? If this actually occurs I think it'd honestly be a much better way to endorse "up and coming" artists that otherwise might have their work ignored, since it effectively forces the voters to look at every file.

Someone I was talking to earlier was joking about piggybacking FoTW winners -- maybe the winner of one week could compile the pack/open the thread for the next week?

Don't think comprehensive pack uploads would be necessary. People can just nominate files, including their own files. Obviously we wouldn't expect everyone to be viewing every single file. As for who opens the thread, we can just have a mod create a thread each week in the FotW subforum. Maybe like each week, voting is done for files from the previous week (or we can have 2-week cycles so more people can get their thoughts in)

[joe#2]

Maybe we could make this another subforum within Files (IF/Packs/etc) where (registered) users can grab a pack of literally every file made within a week compiled by some person, and then hold post votes? If this actually occurs I think it'd honestly be a much better way to endorse "up and coming" artists that otherwise might have their work ignored, since it effectively forces the voters to look at every file.

Someone I was talking to earlier was joking about piggybacking FoTW winners -- maybe the winner of one week could compile the pack/open the thread for the next week?

Don't think comprehensive pack uploads would be necessary. People can just nominate files, including their own files. Obviously we wouldn't expect everyone to be viewing every single file. As for who opens the thread, we can just have a mod create a thread each week in the FotW subforum. Maybe like each week, voting is done for files from the previous week (or we can have 2-week cycles so more people can get their thoughts in)

Code: Select all

[7:41:29 PM] Reading Steiner: the cap off worries me though
[7:42:19 PM] Reading Steiner: honestly what i'm thinking
[7:42:22 PM] Reading Steiner: for the very first time of this
[7:42:28 PM] Reading Steiner: you cap sunday-thursday
[7:42:35 PM] Reading Steiner: put the zip up early friday
[7:42:48 PM] Reading Steiner: allow voting until x time on saturday
[7:42:54 PM] Reading Steiner: (preferrably very late)
[7:43:30 PM] Reading Steiner: have the review up some x time sunday (not really an important part, but i would very very very much like this always up on sunday)
[7:43:41 PM] Twilight McJazz: yeah, i was thinking the same thing
[7:43:49 PM] Reading Steiner: then after that first time
[7:44:11 PM] Reading Steiner: you would take the friday+sat files since voting was on those days, take sun-thurs as normal, and then do it all over again
[7:44:34 PM] Reading Steiner: that way every file on any day is included in the voting at some point
[7:46:08 PM] Reading Steiner: we don't even necessarily *need* to have a zip, or rely on a winner to do it
[7:46:21 PM] Reading Steiner: we could keep the fotw ftp dir intact, have a mod for the forum organize everything
[7:46:37 PM] Reading Steiner: that way they are not deciding the outcome but keep it well-maintained for people ready to vote
[7:47:14 PM] Twilight McJazz: i'm willing to give it a shot
[7:47:50 PM] Reading Steiner: i like the idea of mods transitioning from singlehandedly picking the files to instead paving the way for the average user to place their vote
[7:47:59 PM] Reading Steiner: probably gonna post this convo in the thread and see what people think

Just the rough thoughts that came to mind, but the idea of a 2-week cycle sounds better than what I had. Gives enough time for people to simply look at the files being considered, as well as really think about which one they want to vote for. I get the concept behind the nominating of files to be voted on, but doesn't that have the potential to just stagnate around the same "good stepartists" every week if people are not likely to check out an artist they're not familiar with? But yeah, above all, I am a huge fan of the fotw mods moving from deciding power to simply facilitating power instead.

[SM MaxX]

Yeah we haven't had this thread before like three times already.

The only difference is that this one constructively argues against staff positions rather than beg to be one.

I could've sworn that this topic eventually got into those threads but maybe my autism is acting up.

I do agree mostly with spooty's points but I'm having a hard time imagining another system that would work much better (in the long run at least).